Surrounded by morons--today in English Class.

[Hailey]

I agree that we shouldn't insult our opponents (it does detract from the strength of our argument, no matter how undeniable it is - plus there's no shame in being the bigger man - or woman), but do not for one second expect to have this courtesy returned to you. If you're lucky, scoffing and disrespectful chuckles will be all you face.

I completely agree. Although I do think if you gently confront someone on their behaviour you'd be surprised. My favourite moment was dealing with a gentleman who was being very impolite towards me in a condescending way - not explicit. He was a Christian and he said something fairly mocking - something to the effect of "Aren't Christian girls like you supposed to be submissive?". I heard my husband take a sharp intake of breath wondering what my reply would be. I could hear him change his pace as he came forward and was going to interject. All I said was smile brightly and say "Yes, I am submissive but I am submissive only to godly men so I suspect you might continue to be dissatisfied".

The response I was thinking of was more curt and pointed but that reply was much more effective.

And, sorry to be dense but I don't get the bus comment.

[Caper29]

That's the main thing I learned when Queen's U. had it's model parliament in the House of Commons, when I voted for a bill that I knew was wrong.

That's very interesting. Why did you vote for something you didn't believe in? Were you playing a Liberal member?

I'm not judging or anything I just find group dynamics interesting.


Cheers!
Trevor

[Jason Kauppinen]

"Yes, I am submissive but I am submissive only to godly men so I suspect you might continue to be dissatisfied".

Burned!

Heheheh. Good one.

[Jason Kauppinen]

That's the main thing I learned when Queen's U. had it's model parliament in the House of Commons, when I voted for a bill that I knew was wrong.

That's very interesting. Why did you vote for something you didn't believe in? Were you playing a Liberal member?

Yes, and I was a card-carrying one back then as well.

As to why I voted for something I didn't believe in--I didn't have the guts then to do otherwise in that situation.

[J.B. Stone]

Here's some quotes that I find solace in when times are tough:

"Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say, 'What should be the reward of such sacrifices?' Bid us and our posterity bow the knee, supplicate the friendship, and plough, and sow, and reap, to glut the avarice of the men who have let loose on us the dogs of war to riot in our blood and hunt us from the face of the earth?

If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animating contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen!" – Samuel Adams, speech at the Philadelphia State House, August 1, 1776

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the boisterous sea of liberty." –Thomas Jefferson

"Where there is one brave man, in the thickest of the fight, there is the post of honor." – Henry David Thoreau

"The fact is that the average man's love of liberty is nine-tenths imaginary, exactly like his love of sense, justice and truth. He is not actually happy when free; he is uncomfortable, a bit alarmed, and intolerably lonely.

Liberty is not a thing for the great masses of men. It is the exclusive possession of a small and disreputable minority, like knowledge, courage and honor. It takes a special sort of man to understand and enjoy liberty -- and he is usually an outlaw in democratic societies." – H.L. Mencken, February 12, 1923, Baltimore Evening Sun

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight: nothing he cares about more than his own personal safety: is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions and blood of better men than himself." – John Stuart Mill

Or, would you rather be MICHAEL MOORE....???

[Wlyonmackenzie]

But I got to tell you, I was enraged a bit. My heart was beating very fast and my face turned all red.

Good for you...now you know wy errant orthoxies (like the marxist tripe these cheese dicks were inbued with) must stop at a point....In the US a constitution prevents the communist global utopia from ever being a reality...in canada there's nothing.....these silly commies of convenience that you encounter in your youth....will either be successful if they apply their skills and subsequently will lose this commie drek OR...be failures and use the commie envy rationalle to let their anger focus on the "rich".

At any rate if they don't get a skull transplant we'll end up shooting at the bastards in less than a decade to keep them from completely F'n up the country.

[Muddy]

These people are not individualists like yourself. They are the mob and will go through their entire life without an original thought.

[Wlyonmackenzie]

These people are not individualists like yourself. They are the mob and will go through their entire life without an original thought

Right on Mudds....commies demand heard animal group think...absolute conformity...that ideal appeals to the weak intellect...which is why this lazy man's utopian promise of communism appeals to the lowest intellctual awarness.

Ya don't have to think, or reaseach ...you accept at face value and follow the heard.....modern leftists are lemmings.

[LiberallyConservative]

Thanks JB.
I'm starting a list of quotes that I like... You've already contributed to 80% so far.

Don't fret Joe.
Better to be ridiculed for a righteous and right cause, than to gain the accolades of the unjust/immoral/ignorant.

A fool is easy to please, which is why if we truly were fishers of compliments, we would not be conservatives.

[Theresa]

Of course there where the disgusted chuckles in the background and I start to get flustered.

Conservative Joe this tells me that you were being effective, because your opponents had to resort to chuckles, not sound argument. You probably made some uncomfortable scoring points, hence the nervous chuckles. The seed is planted for someone.

Reacting emotionally is always a bit of an embarrassment, and believe me I speak from plenty of experience. If we let it these experiences can provide an opportunity to learn and cultivate our ability to engage others in these types of conversation.

[Grig]

When a debate is sprung on you suddenly like that on a topic that touches you on an emotional level, it isn't easy do as well as it sounds you did. Don't be so hard on yourself.

I would just be grateful that this wasn't some kind of setup by a liberal teacher who wanted to use you as a bad example.

[Smaug]

Liberty is not a thing for the great masses of men. It is the exclusive possession of a small and disreputable minority, like knowledge, courage and honor. It takes a special sort of man to understand and enjoy liberty -- and he is usually an outlaw in democratic societies." – H.L. Mencken, February 12, 1923, Baltimore Evening Sun

I like this quote by Mencken. Being a "Min-archist", puts me in rather a small minority and it is nice to feel that someone thinks of my kind as special rather than just an ordinary outlaw.

What is a Min-archist? That would be a type of an anarchist in the true sense of the word, not someone who supports chaos. Anarchists believe that there should be no government and that no person or group has the right to impose their will upon another human being except in matters of social justice (ie protection of persons and property against injury and theft) ..... a Min-archist still clings to the notion of having a very minimal sized government, primarily for collective defense of persons and property.

[Red Green]

Honestly, a good place to start is not framing those who disagree with you as "morons" which is the very topic of the thread. If you are going to mistreat people and view them that way it's best not to engage in a discussion. It can't be a thoughtful or respectful one - just an emotional one.

Oh Hailey get off of it. What do you call people who refuse to accept the facts? Intelligent? What do you call people who are so elitest in their thought, that there is no way in hell that they could be wrong. Tolerant?
Tell me Hailey, what do you call people like that?

"Facts", even if they are factual, do not dictate a particular course of action. There are limitless possibilities when confronted with a set of facts and there were good reasons to object to going to war in Iraq, just as there were bad reasons for going to war. It's all in the interpretation of those "facts" and the reasons one puts forth for a particular course of action.

Personally, I consider people to be "morons" when they use faulty reasoning. None of us have first hand intelligence information of WMD's in Iraq. We are all getting it filtered through politicians. Politicians have lied before about matters of war, and will most likely do so in the future. It is reasonable to be skeptical of the "facts" you presented, but their reasoning as to why they thought the US should not go to war may have been faulty.

[J.B. Stone]

The full quote:

"The fact is that the average man's love of liberty is nine-tenths imaginary, exactly like his love of sense, justice and truth. He is not actually happy when free; he is uncomfortable, a bit alarmed, and intolerably lonely.

Liberty is not a thing for the great masses of men. It is the exclusive possession of a small and disreputable minority, like knowledge, courage and honor. It takes a special sort of man to understand and enjoy liberty -- and he is usually an outlaw in democratic societies." – H.L. Mencken, February 12, 1923, Baltimore Evening Sun

What is a Min-archist? That would be a type of an anarchist in the true sense of the word, not someone who supports chaos. Anarchists believe that there should be no government and that no person or group has the right to impose their will upon another human being except in matters of social justice (ie protection of persons and property against injury and theft) ..... a Min-archist still clings to the notion of having a very minimal sized government, primarily for collective defense of persons and property.

You've just described a feudal fiefdom.

Trouble is, your utopia depends on a benevolent dictator....and lacks infrastructure.

[J.B. Stone]

"Facts", even if they are factual, do not dictate a particular course of action. There are limitless possibilities when confronted with a set of facts and there were good reasons to object to going to war in Iraq, just as there were bad reasons for going to war. It's all in the interpretation of those "facts" and the reasons one puts forth for a particular course of action.

WRONG again.....



“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our beliefs, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of reality and evidence.” – John Quincy Adams