OK, let's talk about Marc Lemire

[Connie Fournier]

This is a Google search for "Marc Lemire"

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&sourc ... =&aq=f&oq=

If I had not become familiar this whole s13.1 mess and I was looking at hiring someone like Marc, there is not a snowball's chance in hell I would if I googled him. People are Googled all the time now when they are being considered for work. In hyper sensitive, politically correct Toronto, even a faint whiff of racism is enough to have you shown the door.

As you can see from that search result the very first thing you read is:

Marc Lemire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Marc Lemire is a figure in the Canadian white supremacist movement. He works closely with neo-Nazi leader Paul Fromm, and is the webmaster of the ...

Who is going to hire this guy? I mean, seriously, who? If you were Marc Lemire, what choices would you have? There's punishment, then there's punishment. Far, far worse people have gotten off from much more serious transgressions. It's not like he drugged and raped a 13 year old kid or something.

I have to say that I am surprised that Marc has not issued some sort of public statement addressing these issues.

Exactly right, Narrow Back.

They couldn't get Marc Lemire using the hate speech provisions of the criminal code because he didn't write anything that violated it. So, they went after him using the CHRA and investigated him for six years for the words of other people. That didn't work, so now they are ramping up the smear campaign so they can make sure his life is left in ruins.

Since the CHRC has found that Marc Lemire is not guilty of spreading hate propaganda, I would like to know how Harry and others can justify continuing to ruin his life. If the goal is really to stop hate speech, why continue to attack someone who is not writing hate speech?

What is Lemire's "crime"? (Other than, perhaps, knowing the "wrong" people a decade ago).

If the attack on Lemire continues when he is not writing hate speech, then we've crossed two lines. The first line is that someone is being punished for something he is/was (supposedly) thinking, rather than something he is doing. And, now it is no longer enough to allow criminal courts or the CHRT to mete out punishment. Even if the intended victim is found innocent of any wrongdoing, the censors will take it upon themselves to completely ruin their lives.

Is this the kind of "justice" you want in Canada, Harry? Or is there a part of you that cringes when you see it explained?

[Harry Abrams]

I know, I know. A 2005 decision like the above from a sitting Canadian judge in a "real" court that hasn't been appealed isn't evidence.

Harry, have you any idea what the 'reliable evidence' was that the good Judge is referencing by this line:

Based on reliable evidence provided to me in camera

Only some of the material that made for the Judge's decision was "in camera."
Obviously, the Judge was protecting a source or sources in the interest of national security.

In any case, this decision Mr. Lemire as well as Zundel and is an official public record which we've never heard of being challenged for any reason.

[Harry Abrams]

So the only 'proof' you can come up with, Harry, is a document produced by a process that was later ruled to be unconstitutional.

Nope. No part of that decision was ever ruled unconstitutional or inaccurate. It was never challenged at all. Zundel was deported to Germany.

[Connie Fournier]

I have to say that I am surprised that Marc has not issued some sort of public statement addressing these issues.

He did.

http://www.freedomsite.org/legal/mar23- ... _nazi.html

[LAR]

FWIW I notice Marc Lemire's entry on Wikipedia hasn't yet received the anti-semitism stamp of approval that entries for others like Keegstra and Zundel have gotten. (upper right corner)
But I guess it doesn't mean much because Hitler's entry didn't get one either.

[pirapoi]

As far as the Heritage Front goes, Nizkor has a large amount of data,
<a href="http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/canadian/sirc/heritage-front/"target="_blank"> Nizkor: Heritage Front</a>
yet the only reference I observed with regards to Marc Lemire was this line -

The Source told SIRC that Marc Lemire probably taught Droege how to obtain information from various answering machines and the Hotline.

<a href="http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/canadian/sirc/heritage-front/56.html"target="_blank"> Source: Nizkor </a>

[Narrow Back]

I know, I know. A 2005 decision like the above from a sitting Canadian judge in a "real" court that hasn't been appealed isn't evidence.

Harry, have you any idea what the 'reliable evidence' was that the good Judge is referencing by this line:

Based on reliable evidence provided to me in camera

Only some of the material that made for the Judge's decision was "in camera."
Obviously, the Judge was protecting a source or sources in the interest of national security.

In any case, this decision Mr. Lemire as well as Zundel and is an official public record which we've never heard of being challenged for any reason.

"national security" :lol: Was someone going to "take over the vorld". How silly.

You're re-trying him. The decision has been made. 6 years of effort and he has been found to be banal. What more do you want?

[Harry Abrams]

... Is it mere coincidence that the only conviction Marc Lemire has ever received was in another unconstitutional process? ...

You mean the CHRT decision? It's under appeal. And until the constitutionality of S. 13 has been decided as such, and rescinded by parliament it's still fair ball and you're whistling in the dark. Indeed, the core of S. 13 might not even be challenged at the appeal. It's a request for a clarification of the decision.

[Mark Fournier]

So the only 'proof' you can come up with, Harry, is a document produced by a process that was later ruled to be unconstitutional.

Nope. No part of that decision was ever ruled unconstitutional or inaccurate. It was never challenged at all. Zundel was deported to Germany.

The closed-door secret process that produced this document was ruled unconstitutional. Marc Lemire didn't even know this secret process was going on and certainly had no opportunity to defend himself. Shades of the Soviet Union. It was for reasons like this that the whole certification process was later ruled as unconstitutional.

[Edward Kennedy]

I know, I know. A 2005 decision like the above from a sitting Canadian judge in a "real" court that hasn't been appealed isn't evidence.

Would this be one of the judges who ruled that swingers clubs were legal, which made it legal at that time for children of any gender aged 14 to attend one of these cesspools and have sexual intimacies with adults of any age or gender?

Get my point Harry? There are judges and there are judges. In my experience the judges I have had contact with are decent, fair and make decisions based on justice and equity, but you just gotta know there are those who are washouts.

It is interesting that the gubmit is to know all the goings on of so called racsist organizations but is not compelled to know what is happening in nambla and other indecent and harmful organizations. Racists more dangerous than pedos and terrorists? Yeah, freaking unbelievable. Ernst Zundel was as harmless as a lamb, and a lot less so than one pedo who goes on a rampage.

Ernst was guilty of having a politically incorrect opinion, that he did not act on, and it appears that the pedo crowd are thought to be unworthy of observation, criticism, and certainly persecution. what a freaking %^*&%^& up system, peopled by a bunch of damned politically correct bigots.

[Gerry T. Neal]

Only some of the material that made for the Judge's decision was "in camera."
Obviously, the Judge was protecting a source or sources in the interest of national security.

That "national security" nonsense was just an excuse to deny due process to a man who had been persecuted by the state for 20 years, not for doing anything remotely violent but for expressing an opinion others found offensive (and which caused him to be subjected to violence on a number of occasions, including the bombing of his house).

[Harry Abrams]

Other than Harry's claim that it is widely known that Lemire supposedly was the HF leader at one time, I have yet to see anything to support that accusation.


If someone demonstrates to me that Marc Lemire was truly the head of the Heritage Front I will publicly admit that I was wrong. So far no one has been able to come up with any credible proof of the assertion and I won't participate in furthering the smear until that day comes.

OK Mark, I think this would be a fair time to concede this point, unless you'd rather sweep it under the rug.

[Narrow Back]

I have to say that I am surprised that Marc has not issued some sort of public statement addressing these issues.

He did.

http://www.freedomsite.org/legal/mar23- ... _nazi.html

Thanks Connie. Everyone should read it. I mean you too Harry.

[Mark Fournier]

It is clear that people like you and those at the CHRC are determined to ignore the ruling of the CHRT in this matter because you have a vested interest in keeping this ugly system alive, Harry. Out of curiosity, when the SCC eventually rules Section 13 unconstitutional, what are you going to do for a living? Maybe go free-lance into the civil lawsuit racket like your "friend and colleague"?

[Gerry T. Neal]

Nope. No part of that decision was ever ruled unconstitutional or inaccurate. It was never challenged at all. Zundel was deported to Germany.

He shouldn't have been. He didn't do anything to deserve it. He was a much better Canadian than his persecutors were and are.