OK, let's talk about Marc Lemire

[free_life2]

[J.B. Stone]

"Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas?" – Joseph Stalin

[Gerry T. Neal]

Dr. Dawg begins by saying that he has never made the claim that "Conservative Speech Warriors" are "neo-Nazis in disguise". Yet in the very next paragraph he shows that he is incapable of distinguishing between "conservative" and "neo-Nazi". The Vlaams Belang are not a neo-Nazi party, despite what Charles Johnson may think. In his fourth paragraph he claims that Paul Fromm "has no apparant difficulty with the label" (Nazi or neo-Nazi) and "has now been reborn as a 'free speech activist'". Paul has, in his role as founder and head of the Canadian Association for Free Expression, been a free speech activist (no quotes necessary) for 3 decades now. He is no Nazi (neo or otherwise). Only someone so foolish as to treat the publications of left-wing extremist organizations like the Southern Poverty Law Center as reliable sources would think otherwise.

After linking to one of the SPLC's public displays of mental flatulence to smear Paul Fromm, Dawg turns his attention to Marc Lemire and to Free Dominion. He identifies Mark and Connie Fournier as Lemire's chief defenders and calls them an "assiduous pair of midwives" that have been "assisting for some time in Lemire's difficult rebirth as a mere defender of free speech". Rebirth from what?

Here Dawg begins to repeat the tired old arguments that Lemire was a neo-Nazi.

At this point, however, we have to remind Dawg of what he said in his very first sentence - that he has never claimed that "Conservative Speech Warriors" are "neo-Nazis" in disguise. This is similar to nos200's claim the other day that he never calls anyone a Nazi or neo-Nazi who does not identify himself with the ideology of National Socialism.

In fact people like Dawg and nos200 have been throwing the label of "neo-Nazi" around for decades at people who have always rejected the ideology of neo-Nazism. Look, for example, at the evidence nos200 has placed at his website against Lemire. All the evidence connecting Lemire to the Heritage Front in fact shows that the Heritage Front never identified with the ideology of National Socialism and indeed rejected that identification. It's beliefs would be unacceptable to racial egalitarians, for sure, but the world is not divided into racial egalitarians on the one hand and Nazis/neo-Nazis on the other.

I doubt Dawg will ever understand that however. He refers to ARC's posts on Lemire as a "magnificent takedown" of the "'nazi-shmazi' claim". They are nothing of the sort. If anything, the evidence ARC has posted, if anyone were to actually read it, refutes the claim Dawg and the ARC are making that Lemire was or is a neo-Nazi.

[Gerry T. Neal]

I wouldn't give Dr. John Baglow (aka Dr. Dawg) the benefit of one click.

An understandable sentiment.

[Edward Kennedy]

Dr. Dawg begins by saying that he has never made the claim that "Conservative Speech Warriors" are "neo-Nazis in disguise". Yet in the very next paragraph he shows that he is incapable of distinguishing between "conservative" and "neo-Nazi". The Vlaams Belang are not a neo-Nazi party, despite what Charles Johnson may think. In his fourth paragraph he claims that Paul Fromm "has no apparant difficulty with the label" (Nazi or neo-Nazi) and "has now been reborn as a 'free speech activist'". Paul has, in his role as founder and head of the Canadian Association for Free Expression, been a free speech activist (no quotes necessary) for 3 decades now. He is no Nazi (neo or otherwise). Only someone so foolish as to treat the publications of left-wing extremist organizations like the Southern Poverty Law Center as reliable sources would think otherwise.

After linking to one of the SPLC's public displays of mental flatulence to smear Paul Fromm, Dawg turns his attention to Marc Lemire and to Free Dominion. He identifies Mark and Connie Fournier as Lemire's chief defenders and calls them an "assiduous pair of midwives" that have been "assisting for some time in Lemire's difficult rebirth as a mere defender of free speech". Rebirth from what?

Here Dawg begins to repeat the tired old arguments that Lemire was a neo-Nazi.

At this point, however, we have to remind Dawg of what he said in his very first sentence - that he has never claimed that "Conservative Speech Warriors" are "neo-Nazis" in disguise. This is similar to nos200's claim the other day that he never calls anyone a Nazi or neo-Nazi who does not identify himself with the ideology of National Socialism.

In fact people like Dawg and nos200 have been throwing the label of "neo-Nazi" around for decades at people who have always rejected the ideology of neo-Nazism. Look, for example, at the evidence nos200 has placed at his website against Lemire. All the evidence connecting Lemire to the Heritage Front in fact shows that the Heritage Front never identified with the ideology of National Socialism and indeed rejected that identification. It's beliefs would be unacceptable to racial egalitarians, for sure, but the world is not divided into racial egalitarians on the one hand and Nazis/neo-Nazis on the other.

I doubt Dawg will ever understand that however. He refers to ARC's posts on Lemire as a "magnificent takedown" of the "'nazi-shmazi' claim". They are nothing of the sort. If anything, the evidence ARC has posted, if anyone were to actually read it, refutes the claim Dawg and the ARC are making that Lemire was or is a neo-Nazi.

I heard Paul speak here in this area three decades ago and the fellow was not anything other then genuine, honest, and truthful. I am beginning to think that what the lieberals refer to as nazis are in reality good people. In reality, the liars, cowards, and real fascists are the leftists. Call me anything except a lieberal or a leftist. Even perverts are better then those two labels.

[Maikeru]

Marc Lemire's talents are wasted in the ongoing struggle to push back against forces of censorship within Canada.

They could be much better employed in directly assisting Canadians to engage with one another online, rather than indirectly from providing constant revelations of the bizarre behaviour of advocates for controlling public discourse.

That said, absent a person with the willpower, intellectual capacity and organizational ability of Marc Lemire, the deeply entrenched but errant belief that 'professional' thinkers and 'official' organizations are the watchdogs of free society would have gone on unchallenged.

By remaining wilfully ignorant, as the squelching of dissent through smear and lawfare continued to spread, the professional and official elements of society have abetted abherrant behaviour, and imperilled free Canadian society.

[Edward Kennedy]

What everyone seems to forget is that the worst thing a person could be is a fascist and lieberals are dyed in the wool fascists, have been, and probably always will be.

Liberals point fingers and say, "Look at the big bad racist" at anyone who does not parrot their politically correct drivel. Well a racist of any stripe is a lot better than a damned fascist intolerant lieberal.

Does anyone really think there is anything worse than a swillella, a turdcitylieberal, a crybaby?

I would not trust my dogs with the afore mentioned bunch though I think they would make short work of the lot, my dogs hate creeps.

[Maikeru]

<a href=http://jaycurrie.info-syn.com/in-the-spirit-of-thanksgiving/#comment-102442>Harry Abrams
October 14th, 2009 at 11:54 am</a>

I was banned for something really nominal. But that’s OK. Just shows what’s REALLY impt. in speechy land.

All this can be seen starting <a href=http://www.freedominion.com.pa/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=122731&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=120>here:</a>

First I posted <a href=http://decisions.fct-cf.gc.ca/en/2005/2005fc295/2005fc295.html>this link</a> to indicate a sitting Canadian judge’s description of lemire. But no, no, that wasn’t EVIDENCE to our award winners.

So next at [<a href=http://www.freedominion.com.pa/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=1416274#1416274>FreeDominion]</a>
I posted <a href=http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=38867>the link to this posting</a> Lemire had made to Stormfront (one of many I should hasten to add)

At FD I described the article as “by Lemire.” I should have described it as “posted by Lemire.”

There’s no argument that Lemire posted it, even if it’s questionable that he himself wrote it. In either case, lemire posted REPRESENTING the HF, and presumably was in agreement with its contents. So for the purpose of identifying whether Lemire was a bigshot in the HF, it’s a rather small point whether he personally penned that column himself or not.

That’s why I call it a trifle.

Anyway, look at the timing of this ‘banning.” It’s perfect. Imagine him having to ‘splain that one to his elegant host as well as co-speaker a week after conceding a point to the B’nai Brith guy.

Zundel, Keegstra, Collins, Malcolm Ross, Marc Lemire, Bernard Klatt, Paul Fromm…now the Fourniers. Gotta luv it.

Yup, they’re in GOOOOD company!

Excerpts from <a href=http://www.freedominion.com.pa/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=1416645#1416645>Cause of poster Harry Abrams' banning from FreeDominion</a>:

But don't you think tampering with evidence, even just in an internet forum, is more than a little bit scummy? The optics are really bad for you with this one, Harry.

Below is an accurate reproduction of the opening of the post you have cited earlier on this thread as it appeared on Stormfront in 2002:

---------------
The HERITAGE FRONT
------------------

P.O. Box 564, Station "R", Toronto, Ontario, M4G 4E1
Website: http://www.heritagefront.com
E-Mail: heritagefront@freedomsite.org
Heritage Hotline: (416) 693-2298

A Decade of Defiance

The Heritage Front in the new Millennium

Since our founding in the fall of 1989, the Heritage Front has been one
of the most written about, talked about and even hated groups in Canada.
Hundreds of thousands of words have been written about the HF. Countless
hours of radio and television time has been devoted to reporting on us.
Numerous government agencies have tried to silence us. Terrorist groups,
criminals and unstable individuals have even targeted us.

Now here is your reproduction of the same text as you posted it on Free Dominion.

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=38867

-----------------
The HERITAGE FRONT
------------------

P.O. Box 564, Station "R", Toronto, Ontario, M4G 4E1
Website: http://www.heritagefront.com
E-Mail: heritagefront@freedomsite.org
Heritage Hotline: (416) 693-2298



A Decade of Defiance

The Heritage Front in the new Millennium

by Marc Lemire

Since our founding in the fall of 1989, the Heritage Front has been one
of the most written about, talked about and even hated groups in Canada.
Hundreds of thousands of words have been written about the HF. Countless
hours of radio and television time has been devoted to reporting on us.
Numerous government agencies have tried to silence us. Terrorist groups,
criminals and unstable individuals have even targeted us.

Compare the two closely, Harry. Can you spot the discrepancy that led directly to Maikeru's error in his post? I missed it myself the first time through so I didn't begin to suspect you had falsified the document until I scrolled to the bottom and saw this reference to the article in question:

Reprinted from UpFront: FRONTLINE - Issue #20

The devil is in the details, Harry. You should have deleted this line when you were falsifying the beginning of the article. I might have entirely missed your tampering had you been smart enough to make the deletion of the actual source of the article. But I did notice. ... I emailed the link to Marc Lemire and straight out asked him if he had written it. I'll bet you aren't the least bit surprised that he had no problem admitting that he had reposted the article, but he flatly denied he had authored it.

So who has more credibility? Marc Lemire or Harry Abrams?
... ...
It isn't like this is the first time you've consciously and knowingly attributed words to somebody that you knew weren't his for the purpose of damaging the reputation of your target. You did the same thing on another thread here at Free Dominion when you put up some text prefaced with, "Arthur Topham says:" even though there is no way you could deny that you knew Arthur Topham hadn't said the words you attributed to him because you knew the identity of the real author of those words before you posted them.

... ...

Why are you spending so much time spreading lies and and taking the foolish risk of falsifying a document to continue the smear of Marc Lemire? Malice?

Or is this something you have been doing on behalf of the B'nai Brith? Do they know what you are doiing here? Do they know that you have lied and defamed Arthur Topham in this forum? The same Arthur Topham who you and B'nai Brith are harassing with a CHRC complaint? Do they know you have falsified a document in an attempt to publicly smear Marc Lemire even though his case is over?

But now we come to the sad part, Harry.

It is with real regret, and against my wishes (and probably against the wishes of at least some FDers), that I must ban you, Harry.
The trade off for us was we would give you a soapbox and enough rope to ensure you didn't make it to the ground when you fell off. I tend to think you have lost out on this exchange, Harry. You have given everyone a clear demonstration of how at least one B'nai Brith employee handles himself. You have lied, you have defamed, and you have falsified a document to further your ends. You have also demonstrated clearly how far the CHRC and its users and camp followers will go to smear a fellow Canadian in order to further your political agenda.

Part of the reason I have to ban you, Harry, goes beyond the reasons the people who have been advising me have already given to me. I also have to worry that you could get me into legal trouble of another kind. The world people like you and Richard Warman have been trying to build would hold me responsible for allowing you to defame people on a website I help to operate. I could be sued for allowing you to put a falsified document on Free Dominion. I can't take that risk, Harry.

I don't trust you.

[Narrow Back]

I was banned for something really nominal. But that’s OK. Just shows what’s REALLY impt. in speechy land.


At FD I described the article as “by Lemire.” I should have described it as “posted by Lemire.”

There’s no argument that Lemire posted it, even if it’s questionable that he himself wrote it. In either case, lemire posted REPRESENTING the HF, and presumably was in agreement with its contents. So for the purpose of identifying whether Lemire was a bigshot in the HF, it’s a rather small point whether he personally penned that column himself or not.

That’s why I call it a trifle.

If this was the first or second or tenth time, maybe you'd have a point. I was amazed he got away with his numerous insults. But that's just for starters.

Harry inspired me to create this thread about innuendo. Anyone who is involved with this dialog should read it. It's important to remember who we are dealing with.


Innuendo: A Harry Proposition
http://www.freedominion.com.pa/phpBB2/v ... 81a4445e73

[Peter O'Donnell]

Sounds like Harry is a bit jealous he didn't win the award; I guess he doesn't realize that it's not for being like a George Orwell character, it's for being like George Orwell.

Oh well.

[EdS]

I now see why Jews For Preservation of Ownership of Firearms are at odds with bb. <b>bb jews are lieberal jews</b>.

<u><b>All "Official Jews" are liberals</u></b>, Ed. All of them. I have been complaining about that for years.

[Miles Long]

As someone who has watched his Country given away to the flotsam of the world and himself become a second class citizen in the land for which my Father fought in WW2 and my Grandfather in WW1,I find it a bitter victory that Marc Lemire has so far won.
Bitter because it has taken 6 years of a man's life to stand up to and not be quelled into submission by the HRC.
A Commission that believes it is above the Law.That has destroyed people's lives without shame.For what?
Is Canada a better place or safer because of their work?That stooge in the upper right page corner makes me want to puke.
Mark Fournier-What a wonderful expose you did on Harry Abrams of the BB.
Congratulations.
It's time to take this Spanish Inquisition-style HRC,abolish it and bury it in the dung-heap of history.
I am White,born in Canada and proud of both facts.But I hang my head in shame seeing what the Politicians-who work for US-have done to Canada.My thoughts,my beliefs,my Religious symbols,my saying God even,my views on the Protected Groups are all unacceptable in MY country.Because I'm White.No matter what I write,read,think,say,display...is "likely" to cause offense or hurt a member of a Protected Group's (of which MY race is excluded) feelings.
That is pathetically sad.
Thank you.

[Connie Fournier]

LOL! Hi, Harry!

[Fabulous Fred]

LOL! Hi, Harry!

...and I thought we had a "soul mate" in our hotbed of white supremacy here! ... what a goof!

[pirapoi]

Speaking of Marc and Harry, I found this little incident that happened about 6 years ago -

10-28-2003, 04:57 PM

"Hands off the Internet" Protest a Big Success in Victoria
On Sunday, October 26, a dozen supporters of the Canadian Association for
Free Expression confronted some of Canada's most outspoken censors andwould-be thought police outside a Victoria synagogue. The supporters of freedom on the Internet almost outnumber the audience of 20 who got to hear Canadian Human Rights Commission lawyer Richard Warman and Canadian Friends of the Simon Wiesenthal Centre director Leo Adler.


Part way through the protest Dale Kilshaw a prominent local citizen from
an old Victoria family tried to enter the meeting. Challenged by Alan
Dutton, he said he'd heard this was an anti-racist meeting and wished to
hear the views expressed. Harry Abrams, a beefy local operative for the League for Human Rights of B'nai Brith said: "**** off Kilshaw, you
asshole. You're one of Doug Christie's ass lickers." Abrams kept salting
his harangue against Mr. Kilshaw with "****" and its derivatives. All this
was said in front of Mr. Kilshaw's lady friend and several other women.

<a href="http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showpost.php?p=696304&postcount=1"target="_blank"> Source: Marc Lemire, Stormfront</a>