Surrounded by morons--today in English Class.

[Conservative Joe]

*Sighs* I don't even know why I bother.

Anyway, today in English class we were learning about how one must create a clear argument if one wants to make thier argument to be effective.

So here we are talking notes and the Teacher decides to open a can of worms. He asked, "Who here thinks the war in Iraq was justifiable." So I wait...and wait...and wait...and out of 20 odd people no one puts up their hand. Frustrated I give in and shoot up my arm (lol...no not drugs)--there was bloody silence. So I say, "I support the war."

The teacher, a very nice man by the way, asked, "Why?" He was just trying to get me to develope my agrument. So, I go on to say something in line of the following, "Russian, English and American intel all said Saddam had WMD's. Saddam himself said he had WMD. 9/11 changed everything, America is going to hit the scum before they hit them and so on." Of course there where the disgusted chuckles in the background and I start to get flustered.

To make a short story short, there was all the following crap: Bush is a Moron, the only country to ever use WMD was America, The middle east has always been unstable; why should the US interfere. Saddam was always a crazy man; that's no reason to start a war (For some reason everyone laughed at that one.

Throughout it all the Teacher was very respectful, he even countered some of the arguments the students were making. For that I was grateful.

I absolutly got no help from anyone in class, although I did notice some heads knodding in agreement with me; but of course they remained silent.

But I got to tell you, I was enraged a bit. My heart was beating very fast and my face turned all red. And in the end, I do like I didn't present a strong and clear argument. I feel like my emotions got in the way. How does one handle your emotions, when dealing with people like this?


I'll end this post as I started it. *Sighs*

[J.B. Stone]

I feel like my emotions got in the way. How does one handle your emotions, when dealing with people like this?

Know your facts and data.

Speak clearly and concisely.

You will NOT "reach" everyone.

The ideologues are a waste of time, anyway.

Believe in YOURSELF.

I'm amazed you weren't FORCED to speak the usual Leftist drivel.

Talk to your TEACHER about what you've represented here.

Do NOT sacrifice your own moral center for 'popularity'....those who offer you THAT kind of deal...will just ask you to sell ever more huge chunks of your soul.

[J.B. Stone]

http://www.freedominion.ca/phpBB/viewto ... 9169c70eee

MIght help you to make your point next time.

"Never give in! Never give in! Never, Never, Never – in nothing great or small, large or petty -- never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense." – Winston Churchill

“If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.” – Winston S. Churchill

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our beliefs, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of reality and evidence.” – John Quincy Adams

[LiberallyConservative]

http://www.freedominion.ca/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=31848

I totally understand.
It is almost suicidal to proclaim oneself as pro-Bush, but if we don't do it, no one will be able to see the other side of the story, and the liberal lie machine will just keep rolling.
Better to be ridiculed than to be silent and complacent.

[Hailey]

Honestly, a good place to start is not framing those who disagree with you as "morons" which is the very topic of the thread. If you are going to mistreat people and view them that way it's best not to engage in a discussion. It can't be a thoughtful or respectful one - just an emotional one.

[rightsideup]

Conservative Joe - Good job man! At least you had the guts to speak out and that is a commendable and rare trait these days!

[Conservative Joe]

Honestly, a good place to start is not framing those who disagree with you as "morons" which is the very topic of the thread. If you are going to mistreat people and view them that way it's best not to engage in a discussion. It can't be a thoughtful or respectful one - just an emotional one.

Oh Hailey get off of it. What do you call people who refuse to accept the facts? Intelligent? What do you call people who are so elitest in their thought, that there is no way in hell that they could be wrong. Tolerant?
Tell me Hailey, what do you call people like that?

[J.B. Stone]

Contrary to Burkha Babe's claim, there ARE jerks in the world.

But, you don't have to sink to their level.

IT's difficult, but you CAN "beat them at their own game".

I've made a practice out of getting letters published in various newspapers...and so WHAT if some useless clowns don't "get it"...you WILL find someone who DOES.

[Caper29]

*Sighs* I don't even know why I bother.


The teacher, a very nice man by the way, asked, "Why?" He was just trying to get me to develope my agrument. So, I go on to say something in line of the following, "Russian, English and American intel all said Saddam had WMD's. Saddam himself said he had WMD. 9/11 changed everything, America is going to hit the scum before they hit them and so on."

I'll end this post as I started it. *Sighs*

You forgot the United Nations also believed he had WMD. (BTW This still remains to be seen, we still have to go into Syria and Iran ). Otherwise clear and correct point.

People who "feel" they are right and have been fed a steady diet of Much Music and CBC all their lives are never going to except facts as the truth. To them Sean Penn and George Soros had better intelligence on Iraq then The President of the United States.

Best thing to do is keep stating the facts and never drink the cool-aid.

Keep on fighting the good fight!




[/b]

[LiberallyConservative]

Honestly, a good place to start is not framing those who disagree with you as "morons" which is the very topic of the thread. If you are going to mistreat people and view them that way it's best not to engage in a discussion. It can't be a thoughtful or respectful one - just an emotional one.

I agree that we shouldn't insult our opponents (it does detract from the strength of our argument, no matter how undeniable it is - plus there's no shame in being the bigger man - or woman), but do not for one second expect to have this courtesy returned to you.

If you're lucky, scoffing and disrespectful chuckles will be all you face.

[rightsideup]

Honestly, a good place to start is not framing those who disagree with you as "morons" which is the very topic of the thread. If you are going to mistreat people and view them that way it's best not to engage in a discussion. It can't be a thoughtful or respectful one - just an emotional one.

Hailey....your bus is leaving

[seniora]

J.B. Stone wrote:

"Do NOT sacrifice your own moral center for 'popularity'....those who offer you THAT kind of deal...will just ask you to sell ever more huge chunks of your soul. "

I love that quote and will try to remember it.......... what a wonderful supportive post. Consertive Joe would be wise to heed.

[J.B. Stone]

Tell me Hailey, what do you call people like that?

Uhhh....Democratic Presidential Candidates...???

[Conservative Joe]

I was nothing but politeful to these students. I did not go into the argument wanting to start a major fight. I went into because I saw that no one else was willing to stand up for what they believe in. And that disgusted me; so I put up my hand.

Again I was nothing but respectful in my answers.

[Jason Kauppinen]

From what you've recounted Joe I think you did just fine, it will also get easier with practice, and it's a lot harder to deal with the dissapointment felt when you just back down.

Do NOT sacrifice your own moral center for 'popularity'....those who offer you THAT kind of deal...will just ask you to sell ever more huge chunks of your soul.

That's the main thing I learned when Queen's U. had it's model parliament in the House of Commons, when I voted for a bill that I knew was wrong.

If anyone's interested about exactly what happened they should e-mail Adam Daifallah about it:

He was the only person in a chamber of 301 people to vote against a rotten bill that was clothed in a thick patina of political correctness--that took balls.